Btiteam / XBTIT Forum

BTITeam => [BTITeam] Comunications => Topic started by: Lupin on November 15, 2007, 08:59:16 am

Title: Donation
Post by: Lupin on November 15, 2007, 08:59:16 am
Hi,

Sorry to bother you again in you mail box, but if we really need your support:


I must tell, I was expecting better answer and support from btit users, now each month we must pay from our pocket the difference. We (btiteam's admin) have to put a lot of time and work into this project, and we make this with pleasure, but if we have also to pay, this is not good!  :(

Thank you to all users which have already donated!

have a nice day,
your favorite tracker.
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: pajo on November 15, 2007, 11:31:11 am
Hi
You pay to much for your server!

AMD Athlon XP 2000+, 384K

1024 MB DDR-RAM

2x 80 GB / 7200 RPM

700 GB Bandwidth Included

99.999% Network Uptime

Fedora, Debian or Windows

FREE Plesk 8.2 or Ensim

http://www.server4you.com/us/economy/showplan.php?products=0

    $79.00 per Month
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Lupin on November 15, 2007, 11:43:58 am
we've more than 1 server, and we ask for help, if you want to give help you're welcome ;)

on the paper (monitor ;D) there are millions of better prices :)
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Liroy on November 15, 2007, 03:20:31 pm
i pay for my vps :P 20 EUR :P
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: MC on November 15, 2007, 03:51:07 pm
I pay 20 EUR  ;D
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: BitKevin on November 15, 2007, 04:31:05 pm
I am really sorry Lupin bit I'm 15 years old and my parents won't let me donate :(, so sorry

Regards Kevin
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Lupin on November 15, 2007, 05:55:29 pm
Of course, here there are around 8000 users, only 1000 of them are "real" user and visit btiteam's site, so we can say if 50% donate some money 1 time x year, we can survive without problem :D

about server/hosting proposal I got at this time:

We need to be absolutely independent, then our need is dedicated, because we need good hosting for forum and also need complete management for testing and for compiling/runing xbtt.

thank you to all users which have already donated and whom which will donate in the future!

THANK YOU GUYS! ;D
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: SirLamer on November 17, 2007, 10:35:56 am
I pay $5 USD a month for a 5000 member server.  We would have well exceeded 8000 if I didn't keep purging inactive user accounts.

So how can two servers for a similar user base cost 250 euros a month?  I cannot imagine any possible behind-the-scenes activity I might be missing would warrant this additional cost.

Do you really get enough traffic to warrant such an expensive server?  Clearly not if the donations cannot keep up.

Also, unless I am completely missing something, you don't need a second fully capable server just for compiling and testing script.  Hell, I can and have used my own laptop with Windows Vista to run a test server.  You could easily set up an old PC at home and give the IP to the developers.

I suspect you went out and got dedicated servers just because you felt the idea of doing so was exciting and would indicate some level of success on your part.  From what I could tell your original hosting arrangement worked fine and, in fact, better than this one.  Such motivation is simply bad business sense and the result is economic losses.

FYI, I have not donated to your site because I intend to pay $70 for XBTT when it comes out.  I don't pay Microsoft for them to do their R & D... why should I pay you?  I am aware that the $70 purchase cost is optional but this is how I have decided to support you.  Anyway, I suspect that many other users are intending to do the same thing.

FYI #2, I don't intend any disrespect, but sometimes some no-holes-barred reality can be very useful.  Your software is very good and I will gladly purchase it when it becomes available.
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Liroy on November 17, 2007, 10:52:07 am
rotfl xD

5$ for server/month = this is one of hosting plans in this hosting provider

 not REAL SERVER and not VPS!!!


btiteam have REAL SERVER ( Dual Opteron 244, few GB RAM, ...... <= this data is VPS server)
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Lupin on November 17, 2007, 05:17:54 pm
any opinions must respected ;)
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: monosgeri on November 18, 2007, 01:13:19 pm
If I know well there'll be 2 different versions of v2... A free and paid... Maybe you can earn money with v2
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Lupin on November 18, 2007, 02:39:48 pm
Guys, there is (I see) a little misunderstanding, donations are asked to you (I think I'll not in the future) for server's cost, not for earning money...
I personaly think if you (speaking about all btit's users) like the script and have little money, it's good and help to donate, else no problem, I'll think for different thing ;)
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: SirLamer on November 19, 2007, 02:36:10 am
rotfl xD

5$ for server/month = this is one of hosting plans in this hosting provider

 not REAL SERVER and not VPS!!!


btiteam have REAL SERVER ( Dual Opteron 244, few GB RAM, ...... <= this data is VPS server)

Yeah thanks this proves my point.

You guys don't need a dedicated server if you can't match the expense of running it.  You did it so that you could say "rofl XD" in your posts and look special.  There is no way that you need all that power for a site like this.  It's too bad you can't see that, though, even when more than one person points that out to you.  Oh well.

I know what a virtual server is and yes that is what I use - because that is all I need, as is the case for this site.
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: locutius on November 19, 2007, 03:24:29 am
there is no mystique about btiteam.org

i see in this thread some fuktards making speculation on the business of Lupin and the team. it has never been a secret and if you were a genuine member of this community then you would know what the input is from the operators

btiteam has 2 servers. the first runs this site btiteam.org and the second runs the VPS hosting and the test sites and the demo sites. the first is a basic blade with 1GB RAM and costs 69 euro/month and the second is a twin duo-core with 4 GB RAM and costs 179 euro/month. it all adds up to 250 euro/month which is the running costs of this development team EXCLUDING the domain costs and the costs of our time etc

the first dedicated server that hosts btiteam.org was purchased to ensure the access logs of the community are secure and not open to security issues because they are on a shared server

the second larger server was purchased because we need:

1. a hosting service secure from the anti-p2p shills dogging this forum, actually a stepping stone for beginners before they buy their own dedicated server, all in the name of popularising bittorrent and protecting the community from hawks
2. a platform for test sites for new software, we have run 16 beta test sites from this server without cost to the people who put time and effort and skill into our project
3. a platform for the official management and accreditation of xbtit hacks and mods http://www.btiteam.org/smf/index.php?topic=8735.0
4. a platform for xbtit when launched which includes the fully installed set up and ready to go tracker

personally, there have been times when i have been paying out of my own pocket more than 200 euro/month to support this project but my family agrees it is good we do this and commit to what we believe in

to listen to you is an afront to me and the coders and the guys and girlz who all give their resources be it time or effort or skills to the project. i say f*** you, you know and understand shit. the only reason i dont kick your ass is because i wanna enjoy your poor response to my post ... there is none within the core team who doubt what we are about and the principle ethic we are about is sharing

Lupin has paid the server costs for more than 3 years before he ever implemented a donation system. he gave the code for free and also paid the rent. i have backed this honorable man and proposed we can segment the market into those who need help and can pay will pay and those who need help wont pay. if we ever clear our costs then the cash will go to buying coders to push the project forward

then you the Jonny-come-lately has something to say in an attempt to disrupt the community. i am disgusted to hear this criticism and SirLamer you can seriously *f*** off*. your card is marked, i dont want to see you around here anymore. this project cannot be subverted by cheap ignorant childish abuse

Title: Re: Donation
Post by: fr3akstar on November 19, 2007, 04:01:53 am
I do think this is getting a little out of hand, you are only feeding the trolls. TBH i don't think you need to justify yourselves to a couple of 14 year olds, they aren't the ones that can see beyond the ends of their noses and recognise good service when they see it anyway. I have donated a small amount even though I have only been using your software for literally a day because its exactly what I am looking for and whenever I find good "free" software on the net that I can see people have gone to a hell of a lot of effort to produce then why the hell wouldn't I contribute. Now that I have XBTIT Beta 2 up and running and it is serving my purposes I will donate each month for the distinct pleasure of using well thought out software and will contribute my own experience running trackers and dealing with the complications involved in that towards the betterment of the code and the community.

You don't need to justify yourself but when donations are so low I can understand being disappointed in peoples attitudes. I know my contribution was well received and I know any further contribution in whatever form it takes will be accepted with similar good grace in the future.

To the little ones, grow up fast because the PTB is coming for you.

fr3ak (damn it who stole my name!)

Title: Re: Donation
Post by: SirLamer on November 19, 2007, 04:11:34 am
That's fine, you can justify it all you want, but reality is that you are not breaking even.  You can ignore that fact or address it.  Begging for donations will give you a short-term boost but you can't go on doing that forever, because such financial support will fall away.  You need another business model.

I saw in an earlier post that this purchase was made expecting 50% of your user base to donate money.  Well that is not anywhere near realistic.

Again, as an idea to address your costs, I cannot accept that one machine is being taxed to its limit just running btitem.org.  Can the hack management system and the demo tracker be moved to this server?  You can run your beta tests on someone's idle PC being hosted at home.  This frees the second server to be used exclusively for re-hosting, the cost of which should be more than covered by the fees you collect for this service.  Speaking of which, why are you including serer costs used in your re-hosting service as part of the monthly donation quota?  This seems dishonest.  If it is so underutilized, then maybe consider whether or not you really need to do this to support the community.  I have a fine hosting service that is fully aware of my BitTorrent activities and does not object.  I can provide links but only if you want them (I don't want to take from your own hosting service.)

I really do not mean to piss all over your work.  Problems like this one can really benefit from a fresh third-party perspective and that is all I aim to offer.  I appreciate and respect your response, Locutius - certainly a stark contrast from "rofl XD".  I can tell you're offended and for this I apologize.  I honestly had not considered the anti-p2p issue to the extent that you appear to address it through your hosting model.  However, this does not change the fact that you are losing money.  Even if I turn around and donate $50 as a result of this discussion, this won't even cover a third of the remaining difference of this month, let alone the months ahead.  This reality is far more threatening than any anti-p2p efforts, which have no legal basis.
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Lupin on November 19, 2007, 09:05:19 am
I really don't know why each time (this is second) we ask for help and support there is a lot of contrast and everyone want to say "you loose, it's bad system, you pay too much, etc"

I only want to say and then close:
if you can donate, donate we will be grateful; if you can't/don't want for some reason, then don't do it, but don't flame or open useless post.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: monosgeri on November 20, 2007, 03:11:28 pm
Guys, there is (I see) a little misunderstanding, donations are asked to you (I think I'll not in the future) for server's cost, not for earning money...
I personaly think if you (speaking about all btit's users) like the script and have little money, it's good and help to donate, else no problem, I'll think for different thing ;)

I ment the "earn money" to pay the server... I know well because I have also one...
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: JDupri on November 22, 2007, 10:37:21 am
I'm a little bit late on this discussion, but I don't understand why the DEV team doesn't use SourceForge hosting.
the large majority of users here will never pay for anything as reflected previously in polls & other discussions.
however, I believe ppl (including myself) will pay for custom hacks & feature improvements / additions.
maybe this is another avenue to pursue.
also, SirLamer makes some valid points that should be viewed not as an attack, but as constructive feedback from a user of your product.
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Liroy on November 22, 2007, 11:20:53 am
because on sourceforge.net web hosting is big shit ;/ sometimes works slowly and if i'm not wrong not for simplemachines forum and mkportal (btiteam using this). Sourceforge.net we use only for svn hosting and and file releasing oh and for bugtracker
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: JDupri on November 22, 2007, 11:57:41 am
thanks for the explanation, Liroy.
I don't know what else to recommend to you guys.  it is an interesting paradox.

ppl want support & hacks, etc but they don't want to pay & seem to want to complain more than anything else.

however, I would definitely pay for direct priority support / coding help & custom hacks
I would even be willing to pay for this type of service on a quarterly basis (every 3 months)
but, I think I may be in a small minority of serious users / admins here who may be interested in this.
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: SirLamer on November 23, 2007, 11:46:00 pm
I can suggest something else rather simple for collecting donations.

The PayPal donate page is in a language I don't understand.  That doesn't mean it's wrong, but rather maybe is there a way to make offer a choice of various languages?

I suggest this because to have to figure out what is going on is difficult and somewhat discouraging.  When I tried to login, hoping it would switch languages (in what I can only assume is the login fields) I got an error that I cannot read!

Anyway, since I suspect most of your users are English, you might want to consider offering multiple languages on that page - if you can.
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Lupin on November 24, 2007, 11:27:00 am
I can suggest something else rather simple for collecting donations.

The PayPal donate page is in a language I don't understand.  That doesn't mean it's wrong, but rather maybe is there a way to make offer a choice of various languages?

I suggest this because to have to figure out what is going on is difficult and somewhat discouraging.  When I tried to login, hoping it would switch languages (in what I can only assume is the login fields) I got an error that I cannot read!

Anyway, since I suspect most of your users are English, you might want to consider offering multiple languages on that page - if you can.
you're right, my bad. I've fixed the donation's language page (paypal's one)
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: SirLamer on November 25, 2007, 09:34:16 pm
Reviewing the PayPal donations page, I still see the same language (Italian, I think) with no clear opportunity for changing the language to something else.
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Lupin on November 26, 2007, 08:51:02 am
Reviewing the PayPal donations page, I still see the same language (Italian, I think) with no clear opportunity for changing the language to something else.
shitting paypal interface, should be english now...
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: rockybaboa on December 29, 2007, 07:17:42 am
Hi,

Sorry to bother you again in you mail box, but if we really need your support:

  • September: server cost covered
  • October: server cost not covered (got 50 euros for 249 needed!)
  • November: we're very low! half month and only 10 euros...

I must tell, I was expecting better answer and support from btit users, now each month we must pay from our pocket the difference. We (btiteam's admin) have to put a lot of time and work into this project, and we make this with pleasure, but if we have also to pay, this is not good!  :(

Thank you to all users which have already donated!

have a nice day,
your favorite tracker.

sorry  i am new here like to buy torrent files to upload to my websever want to make a torrent website can you help me?
Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Lupin on December 29, 2007, 02:06:42 pm
you already can do this without pay nothing, then if you like you can donate ;)